Last year I had my first debate with a creationist. Creationists are those that believe that God created life on the planet, oh, say 10,000 years or so ago.
They are also called ID’ers. They believe that an Intelligent Designer (ie. God) is the origin of all the species. Sarah Palin is a creationist/ID’er. Mike Huckabee is a creationist/ID’er. And while I don’t know this for sure, I’m pretty confident that George W. Bush was also a creationist. I infer that because I’m pretty sure he believed that it was God’s plan for him to be President. Scary because these people are in positions with great power and responsibility.
In any case, I’m a country bumpkin when it comes to understanding and/or communicating about science so I admit that I walked carefully, and I carried a big stick (in this case, science) during this debate about evolution versus intelligent design.
Why did I even bother getting into it with this guy? I have learned a lot about this topic over the past year and what I discovered was that creationist/ID’ers are working very hard to have the concept of ID taught in science class in the public schools right alongside evolution. They’ve had their day in court a number of times only to have had their heads handed to them by the various judges who have heard those cases. However, they continue their battle, particularly with the help of the Discovery Institute and a guy named Michael Egnor.
The bottom line is that Intelligent Design, or Creation (or Creation Science) is not science and should not be taught in science classes in the public schools. My opponent in this debate didn’t agree with that because he believes that evolution is a failed theory and that creation is a valid alternative to it.
So, onto the debate. Under the circumstances, I believe I handled myself fairly well by relying on some excellent resources to make the case for evolution. One example of this is Talk Origins.
Did I change his mind? Hardly. And really, I didn’t expect it to. It did force me to look at the topic more closely and learn more about what I didn’t know (which is/was a lot) and it also showed me how creationists typically argue their “position”. In this case, it was a textbook example of the arguments use to defend their anti-evolution belief system. Or more simply, God did it because the Bible says so.
At first he argued that evolution is “just a theory” and not fact. People often confuse the reference to “theory” in evolution with the idea of a “hypothesis” and believe that a “theory” cannot be fact. Evolution is both a theory and a fact, and it is supported by MOUNTAINS of evidence.
Having said that, evolution is not a perfect theory as most scientists would admit – but it is scientific, evidence based and testable. You can’t say the same about Creationism or Intelligent Design.
Scientists continue to ferret out the finer points of evolution with their on going research. They don’t have all the answers, but science (not theology) allows them to continue to accumulate evidence in its support. Creationists can’t because their “theories” are not testable or subject to the scientific method.
Having said that, the idea that evolution is not fact is simply wrong.
Then his argument became, “There are major gaps in evolution so it is a failed theory.” Sure there are gaps in the theory of evolution, but science continues to fill those gaps are each and every day via the scientific method.
My creationist friend would infer that because of these so-called “gaps” that evolution couldn’t explain the ascent of the species and that there is only one alternative to evolution: God. Yes – God did it. It’s the “God of the Gaps” argument. The creationist says to himself: “Science can’t explain everything about the evolution of species– so God had to have had a hand in it.”
That’s not science – it’s not testable and therefore gets thrown out immediately as an argument. However, it became clear that my creationist friend was 1) anti-science or 2) didn’t understand science even at a rudimentary level. I’m guessing it was both.
Then he tried to argue the position that there is no benefit to evolution. What? That is plain wrong – all you have to do is look around you. I cited many examples including the advances we have made in medicine and technology, among other things. He chose to dismiss those points altogether saying something like, “If we didn’t know about evolution, those things would have happened anyway”.
Whether evolution benefits anybody, or whether we are even aware of it, is irrelevant to the fact that it’s happening or that it’s real.
From there, the argument devolved into my mocking and belittling him every chance I had. Okay, so I’ve got a lot to learn about the rules of debate and the many logical fallacies we commit in our arguments (ad hominem attacks are just one) – but I got frustrated and I let the 12 year old in me loose. At that point, the argument was pretty much over anyway. It was like talking to a brick wall. (Although, I’m pretty sure he felt the same way about me).
So what is the point of all this? Today is Charles Darwin’s 200th birthday so I thought I’d share the experience I had in debating this particular creationist believer. Charles Darwin wrote the book that put “evolutionary theory” on the map. Evolutionary theory is synonymous with Darwin – which is why I thought I’d share this story. One thing to note is that Darwin didn’t come up with evolutionary theory himself. It was someone else whose name escapes me at the moment. Darwin was just a little quicker on the draw I guess.
It’s also Abraham Lincoln’s 200th birthday. It’s interesting that two men who had such a profound impact on the world were born on the same day. If you want to see how their lives played out in relation to each other, get the book “Rebel Giants” by David R. Contosta. I highly recommend it.
Charles Darwin and Abe Lincoln, you are today’s Best Persons in the World for your contributions to the world and for the significant impact you have had on my life.
“Egnoring” The Evidence
Michael Egnor is a representative of the Discovery Institute – a conservative “think tank” that promotes intelligent design/creationism. I’ve referred to them before. Mr. Egnor was quoted in a CNN article today saying the following:
“We don’t have a clear pathway for how things evolved. Evolution inherently is a valid theory for some aspects of biology, but it doesn’t explain everything,” said Michael Egnor, a professor of neurosurgery at the State University of New York, Stony Brook.
Egnor is a supporter of the relatively recent theory of intelligent design, which holds that biological life was purposefully created by an intelligent being or deity and not an unguided process such as natural selection.
“There are certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection,” added Egnor, who is affiliated with the Discovery Institute, a politically conservative think tank.”
Like the creationist I debated, Egnor simply chooses to dismiss all of the scientific evidence for evolution and natural selection. On top of that, he is not able to offer up ANY supportable evidence for his position. Because it doesn’t exist. He simply says, God did it, you need look further.
He has been debated time and again by people well versed in evolutionary biology. He has debated Steven Novella many times. Steven Novella is a practicing neurologist (Egnor is a professor of neurosurgery) and is the founder of the New England Skeptical Society, the people who produce “The Skeptic’s Guide to the Universe”, one of my favorite podcasts. (By the way Dr. Novella has a great blog post here on his response to an ID’er who has identified “Ten Major Flaws of Evolution”.)
Like he did with the person who wrote “Ten Major Flaws” Steven wipes the floor with Egnor every time. But Egnor sets that all aside and continues to believe that God did it. End of story. No more work to be done here.
Michael Egnor, professor of neurosurgery at State University of New York, Stony Brook, you are today’s Worst Person in the World.